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Thread: 1550ft Straight Up

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    Administrator Frank Adams's Avatar
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    1550ft Straight Up

    I have been testing my P2V in Stock form for the past week before receiving updated antennas from our Site Supporter Tony at FPVLR. I've been raising the limit a 100-200ft each time out. I have it on video, and plan to get it on here soon. The sad part is it's taking 6.5 minutes to descend from 1550ft. I understand someone who has little experience with flying, but when you're so use to doing things a certain way, it sucks when something is taken away from you.

    Video coming.

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    Respected Pilot Shrimpfarmer's Avatar
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    Its just about the silliest thing DJI has done yet making that change. I am sticking with 1.08
    I fly Phantom 2 with Gopro 3 Black, Zenmuse, Imersion RC600, Black Pearl Monitor.

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    Administrator Frank Adams's Avatar
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    OMG!!!....Did I get the scare of my Phantom Vision Flying Life this morning! I've taken a nap, did some work around the house in 87 degree weather(global warming at it best), and I still shake some when I think about it. I wanted to put together the video and share it along with telling what happened, but with the amount of time that will take I was afraid I wouldn't get it ready before my friends across the pond go to bed. I have the video set for editing in the software and will go to work on right after making this post.

    So I have been doing straight up distance testing for a week now in complete stock form, no mods whatsoever. Even though I go above the mentioned limit, I do not agree with it, should it get in the wrong hands. Arguably, I do not fly around the sky. I only go straight up, and straight down, as long as the Vision allows it. It's giving someone the ability to fly in distance while above the limit that concerns me. I would gladly no longer do straight up runs if it meant nobody could.
    Ok so last evening I set a personal best of 1776 straight up. In checking the weather for the next 4 days I noticed my only decent window was in the 7-9am range this morning. Outside of that window 20mpg plus wind along with thunder storms are forecast. So I get setup and begin ascending up. I see I'm climbing slightly fast then normal. This time It was 13mph. I get to around 900ft and take a break long enough to reposition my thumb, and then I continue on. As I go past the low 1300ft range I get "Connection Lost", but I know I can still climb just not with video reception. I end up stopping at 1448ft and the connection lost is going in and out. This is normal when you are at the reception limit. Walking around raising your hand held over head sometimes allows to regain brief reception. This is when I generally lower my copter roughly 100-125ft to get in into a better reception range.

    I need to point out that I have also been doing a lot of testing with the Gain feature. After my last flight last night I made a larger step then what I should have and what now is known to be in the wrong direction. But you just don't know on these things unless you try.

    So in watching the video back, I can see with the amount of wind we were having this morning, I had dialed out too much ability for the copter to hold itself in a locked position. The unknown result was, the copter was slowly drifting further out of range. With no video connection I had no idea this was taking place. I was think it was relatively just over head and in the last direction I saw before loosing connection. With thinking it was staying over head, my plan was to put it into Return To Home when I was ready for it to do so. Had I only known!

    The copter goes on this slow drift until either I used the RTH option, or it reached the Outer Limit setting I had entered in Limit Settings. I wont know until I use goggle earth which I have not yet done.

    Now comes the freaky part. Let me say had I not already had my copter in hand before watching the video of this journey, they would had to have taken me to the Nut House/Funny Farm. I watched my copter descend to 60ft in an area where there is around a 1/8th mile of wooded area between it's 60ft starting point and my house where it took off from. And I know there are numerous trees in this area that exceed 60ft. Watching this starting point, I said to myself there isn't noway it will survive the trees it is getting ready to fly into. Rather then pumping this up, there were around 6 near misses with the last one looking like it may have clipped a branch. It was epic what took place in my eyes. Seeing what took place explained why I could never get the reception back like I have so many times before.

    When I get the video loaded, you will see the copter go through some interesting behavior in trying to get it self back to the spot where I last had communication with it. It uses the yaw by rotating 90 degrees and makes an attempt, then rotates another 90 degress and tries doing this for a couple of minutes.

    Ok off to work on the vid unless I get pulled away for something else. Btw, I was SO lucky this morning it is just unreal. I really do need to go buy a few lottery tickets sometime before the night is over.

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    Respected Pilot Pull_Up's Avatar
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    Not sure I quite understand. Are you saying that during a failsafe situation the aircraft descended to 60ft? That goes against the stated algorithm which is that it climbs to 60ft ​or stays at current height if higher...

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    Administrator Frank Adams's Avatar
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    Administrator Frank Adams's Avatar
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    I had the Outer Limit set at 1600ft. It drifted right on by that like nothing. It wasn't until it reached just under 3700ft before went into RTH mode. And I really think it went into the RTF mode when it did because I had recently shut the controller off just to force it into RTH.

    Btw, where does someone live that the tree's and power lines do not exceed 60ft?

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    Administrator Frank Adams's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention this flight was part of on going testing on Gain Settings. I had set the settings on the low side for this flight. In the video the wind looks bad. But the wind was only 4-9mph during this flight. Gain settings I had entered were not far from the original tune that was default used on 1st firmware. Probably should start a new thread on Gain Settings for discussion.

    Anyway, in the video around the point where I mentioned with text that the copter had already exceeded the 1600ft Outer Limit setting, you can see the copter suddenly stop it's effort in trying to return back to the set Limit Zone.

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    Respected Pilot Pull_Up's Avatar
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    That's not how failsafe behaviour is meant to happen. It should only ever climb to 60ft, never descend. If you're already over 60ft it should stay at whatever height it is and travel back at the height.

    Something's not right with your set-up there.

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    Flight Ready peter mclachlan's Avatar
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    i find this very bad here we have an administrator/owner doing what we are all saying is causing us all this trouble with the authorities flying outside our legal limits we are capped at max altitude of 400 ft is that not correct , please correct me if i'm wrong , that is our height limit in Australia , and i thought that was the limit in most countries, this in my opinion is what the faa , cassa and other countries authorities are using against us to bring in strong laws banning or making it bloody hard for us to fly our drones
    sorry this is just my personal thoughts please correct me if i'm wrong
    pete
    Owner & operator of our own little hobby shop http://www.danielspitstop.com.au

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    Respected Pilot pault's Avatar
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    Here in the UK the 400' is an advisory limit but iirc you have to remain in visual contact at all times and if you fly fpv you have to have a spotter with you. At 1550' I doubt you would be in visual contact so it would also be illegal here. Even if you could see it, it would be a speck so it would be difficult to get out of the way of any aircraft. Ever since I first got my P2V I have thought that what we need is a voluntary code of conduct which we could adhere to. This may delay the introduction of more draconian controls which are inevitable (imo).
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    Respected Pilot Pull_Up's Avatar
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    In the UK there is no legal height ceiling for RC - you are required to keep the aircraft within unaided visual contact at all times. That will vary depending on conditions from only a couple of hundred feet to about 1000ft. You are also required to not be reckless or endanger people or other aircraft, so it also depends where you do your flying as to how appropriate your height is.

    In the US where Frank lives there are currently no laws governing or restricting the flying of RC, only guidelines. Other countries have neither laws nor guidelines.

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    Flight Ready peter mclachlan's Avatar
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    ok well im sorry as i fly planes and choppers in the states as well, as most countries the model clubs have a 400 ft altitude ceiling maybe we the flyers of the drones should adopt this limit it would and could stop a lot of the bullshit that is going on regarding stupid flying of heights if someone can see a phantom at 1500ft with just there eyes i think they must be great because iv'e been flying planes including jets and i can tell you my eyes are 20/20 vision and i cant see that high come on really think can you see a tiny dot at 1500 ft
    pete
    Owner & operator of our own little hobby shop http://www.danielspitstop.com.au

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    Respected Pilot pault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pull_Up View Post
    .....

    In the US where Frank lives there are currently no laws governing or restricting the flying of RC, only guidelines. Other countries have neither laws nor guidelines.
    Also, the US is very large compared to the UK where nearly everywhere you will be near an airport or flight path. There must be many places in the US where you can fly miles from anywhere although saying that, there is a huge amount of domestic air travel compared to the UK so maybe it is harder to find anywhere well away from any air routes or airlanes (whatever they are called).
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    Respected Pilot Pull_Up's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter mclachlan View Post
    ok well im sorry as i fly planes and choppers in the states as well, as most countries the model clubs have a 400 ft altitude ceiling maybe we the flyers of the drones should adopt this limit it would and could stop a lot of the bullshit that is going on regarding stupid flying of heights if someone can see a phantom at 1500ft with just there eyes i think they must be great because iv'e been flying planes including jets and i can tell you my eyes are 20/20 vision and i cant see that high come on really think can you see a tiny dot at 1500 ft
    pete
    You could argue that flying at 400ft but being beyond visual range using only FPV should also be a no-no because you have no situational awareness. Personally u don't fly beyond visual range, but I do fly above 400ft occasionally. I'm a lapsed private pilot and I choose my sites for doing so carefully, using knowledge of local airspace and always keeping a good lookout and listen - and always keeping visual with the aircraft.

    I don't know if there's a blanket ban on flying general aviation below 500ft in the US but in the UK the rule is to keep 500ft FROM any person, vehicle or structure, not necessarily above. When I was training we regularly got down to about 50ft off the deck above fields to practice forced landings. So whilst I agree with you in principle I don't think having hard limits will stop idiotic flying. I believe you can fly very responsibly at 800ft up, and fly like a reckless lunatic and be a danger to people and property and never get above 150ft.

    As was already mentioned choosing a flying style and altitude that is appropriate to where you are flying is probably more important in my opinion. I think height on its own is a red herring - wait until waypoints comes for the Vision and Vision+ and I fear there'll be a massive increase in aircraft hitting property, power lines, etc through programming an autonomous route and flying it too low, our just not even thinking in three dimensions...

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    Respected Pilot pault's Avatar
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    o/t - I have thought from the outset when I heard about waypoint flying that DJI would shoot itself in the foot by providing it in a RTF product. The concept has been around for years but has been restricted to ultra keen hobbyists who learn how to install and program small microprocessors and as such they probably have the nous to think before they send their aircaft off on a mission. As PU says, it is just going to raise the number of accidents dramatically and not only will it hasten more legislation it has already impacted on our freedom to decide where it is safe to fly by the imposition of the poorly implemented no fly zones. I can understand the satisfaction gained by installing and learning to program a flight computer but for me anyway, once i have tried the DJI app a couple of times for fun I think the novelty factor will wain - and we will all end up paying a high price for a marginal gain.

    Rant over !

    Edit: to return to the topic, I agree with Peter that we should voluntarily stick to altitude limits where it is easier to see our aircraft and as such 400' or 500' would probably be around the right kind of figure. Should people want to go for altitude records then maybe the same approach as model rocketeers could be used i.e. a group meeting with appropriate permissions gained.
    Last edited by pault; 05-11-14 at 01:23 PM.
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